I got my first negative comment today, on the What Would Jefferson Do? Does it Matter? posting. The commenter's handle, "pinetreeheaven7," is not a valid screen name, so I will respond here. Please be aware, though, that I really, really don't like to argue about religion or politics, or much of anything, to be honest. So this is a one time deal. If at the end of this entry you think, as pinetreeheaven7 does, that I'm somehow not "really" a Christian, you're mistaken, but I'm not going to spend my life trying to convince you about this. Any further attacks on this church-attending, Bible-reading, Kerry-supporting Democrat will be deleted without comment. You are, however, free to express your views elsewhere, as long as it's not for the purpose of slandering me. Onward.
My unsendable email reply (slightly edited) begins:
I really don't like confrontation, so I'm only going to do this once. You took your shot at me, and now it's my turn. After that there will be no more turns, not between you and me, anyway.
In a message dated 7/31/2004 10:45:27 AM US Mountain Standard Time, AOLAlerts writes:
If you are a Christian I will eat my hat. Episco what?
The Episcopal Church has been around for centuries, and was one of the first to diverge from the Catholic Church. Like everything else in this world, it's not perfect, but it is certainly Christian. St. Michael's in particular is a wonderful place. It's arrogant and ignorant in the extreme of you to assume that Episcopalians are not really Christians, or that I am not. I not only attend church every week, but I usually serve at Mass as crucifer, torch or lector, especially in the summer when we're shorthanded. It has always horrified me that some Christians will narrow the definition so that it means "everyone who agrees with me" rather than "everyone who does his or her best to follow Jesus." Once people put someone else in the box labeled "Them" instead of "Us," they tend to feel justified in treating that person as subhuman, which is the very antithesis of the teachings of Jesus.
Christians are against murder (killing babies).
I am very much against killing babies. I am also against killing adults and children. Somehow, some of the same Christians who think that birth control is a mortal sin have no problem with killing Iraqis, prisoners, or even doctors who disagree with them. "Thou shalt not kill" is not an easy commandment to live up to, even if it's recast as "You shall not murder." I, personally, have never killed anyone.
They beleive that marriage is Sacred and Holy insitution between a man and a woman, ordained by God as a symbol of our faithfulness and committment to Him.
For a gay couple to emulate that in the eyes of state law (which is separate from God's law, although it follows most of the same principles) does not make this any less true.
Ten commandments has these two listed as top commandments. Lies and slander are also something that God condemns.
First of all, depending on your numbering (which varies in different sects according to where the text gets broken up, but still adds up to 10), the top two commandments are about one's duties to God (not having strange gods before Him, etc.). The ones against murder and slander come later in the list. All of the commandments are subsets of the main two: "You shall love the Lord your God with your whole heart, your whole mind, and your whole strength," and "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." The commandments you refer to are part of that second one.
As for lies, all my life I have tried very hard never to lie to anyone about anything. I manage it about 99.9% of the time. That doesn't mean that people always agree with me. I have never lied or slandered anyone in my journal. (I have written fiction, though.)
If you are truly for religious freedom then i suggest that you join the groups that are fighting the ACLU. This organization's main goal is to get anything that points to the bible or Christ out of everything.
Many Christians, including myself, disagree with you. Your claim about the ACLU *is* slander. The ACLU believes that people have a right to believe as they choose, or not to believe at all. Religious freedom is exactly that. What you want is the "right" for everyone to be forced to agree with you. Nobody is preventing you from believing what you believe. They are merely defending the right of other people to believe something else. (In retrospect, I suppose that the commenter means "out of everything in the government." The concept of separation of church and state was important to Jefferson and other Founding Fathers, and remains important today. If a courthouse can't post the Ten Commandments, or if "under God" is eventually removed from the Pledge of Allegiance, that in no way "prohibits the free exercise" of religion. It merely keeps a governmental institution from openly endorsing a particular form of religious faith.)
Hollywood is the only ones that have true freedom of speech now and they are great supporters of the ACLU.
Shall I correct your grammar? You go from singular to plural in the same clause. The correct construction would be "People in the Hollywood entertainment industry are the only ones now who have true freedom of speech. They are great supporters of the ACLU." Even with corrected grammar, the first part is a false statement. You demonstrated your right to free speech by posting on my journal. I will allow the comment to stand--once. I will block future postings by you on my journal, as is my right as editor/publisher of this particular forum. You are still free to post your misguided nonsense elsewhere--for example, in your own journal. (Of course, that would require having a real account somewhere.)
Larry Flint is also on their membership list.
He's a jerk, (IMO) but so what? It doesn't mean that he's wrong 100% of the time. People are complex, and one of the complexities is that nobody (except Jesus) is completely right or completely wrong in every way.
How about "What would Jesus do?"
Which, of course, I acknowledge indirectly in the piece you commented on. In the current instance, I think Jesus would want me to treat you with compassion, but speak out against your errors.
You can find this out by reading your bible. Take the time and you will never regret it.
If you had read my whole journal (which admittedly is a lot of reading), you would see that for Lent I reread the four Gospels and part of Acts. I have been to classes about some of Paul's epistles. I've read much of the Old Testament (but not all of it), including bits that most people would prefer to skip over, because otherwise Christians would still be offering burnt sacrifices and keeping Kosher (to name two of the less over-the-top practices that don't involve actually killing people). I read aloud from the Old Testament in church. And what's more, I think I understand some of it, a little. I'm not perfect, but I don't hate anyone. I do my best to love my enemies. Can you say the same?
Regards and with prayers that you will someday understand your own faith better,
Karen Funk Blocher
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2 comments:
I don't know who that pinetree person was, but it surely seems like they have pinestraw between their ears. Excellent rebuttal! ~Peachy
As a liberal christian, I'd like to say thank you for posting such an excellent comback. These people who claim to be "the real christians" so often miss the point entirely.
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